0:00

Hi, I'm Michele Mateus, and welcome to Noticing the Ordinary. This podcast is all about solo musings and honest conversations where we share about the things we so often miss in life. There's no homework, and there's no adding to your to-do list. Honestly, I'm just here to share some good company and something worth noticing. But a note before we dive in. I share openly and honestly here, and I'm not a therapist or a doctor. So if you're moving through something that you need some support with, I encourage you to reach out for professional help. And if you don't know where to turn to, I got you. I've listed some resources on my podcast homepage, so you can go check those out. All right. Now let's get down to noticing something.

Michele 0:44

Today we're speaking to someone who I personally think is extraordinary and just so lovely, and we knew each other through the photography industry, and then eventually I ended up working with Kendra myself. I feel grateful to call you a friend, Kendra. So today I'm sat with Kendra Copeland, and Kendra is an amazing human being, and I have a whole write-up about Kendra that I wanna share, but I really just wanted to share from the heart why I invited Kendra on here, because I love the energy that you put out into the world. I love everything that you share, the rants, the joy, the insights, all of it. And so I thought when I started this podcast, "Who do I wanna be on my podcast?" And you were definitely on the top of my list. So thank you for, being here with me today.

Kendra Coupland 1:30

Thank you so much for having me. You're so sweet.

Michele 1:33

Hey, I think we all need to share a little bit more love in these times. You know what I mean? Yes.

Kendra Coupland 1:38

It's

Michele 1:38

there anything that you want listeners, viewers, whatever, peoples out there to know about you? I know I'm gonna share this little bio, but if you have a little self-intro piece you wanna share, you're welcome to do that

Kendra Coupland 1:50

Um, yeah, I don't know if I have a self-intro piece, but what I would like to say is that I'm continuously growing, so maybe what I'm saying here today won't apply in a year.

Michele 1:58

Okay. I love that

Kendra Coupland 2:01

folks to, uh, remember that when we talk, it's, like, frozen in time in that podcast, and that, like, our beliefs, our opinions, our ideas might shift and

Michele 2:09

Kendra's job was done already here today, folks. Like you with that bit of wisdom. That is so beautiful, Kendra. I'm actually in awe of that statement because exactly, podcasts are out there, right? Every- all things on the internet are out there,

Kendra Coupland 2:24

É.

Michele 2:24

and you may say something that in a year from now you're like, "Why did I say that?" Or

Kendra Coupland 2:31

Cringing.

Michele 2:31

"Why didn't I say..." 'Cause I've, I've been interviewed on podcasts before, and I'm like, "Shit-"

Kendra Coupland 2:39

Yeah, that's so real. And also, you know, you're kind of like the moment trying to think of things that sometimes when you have more space later on you're like, "Oh, okay. Actually, that would've been maybe a better way of articulating that experience or that thing I was thinking

Michele 2:53

Yeah. Yeah, especially, I'm autistic, I'm ADHD, I'm very distracted in the moment

Kendra Coupland 3:01

Yeah,

Michele 3:01

tech, by all of the things. So that's such a beautiful way to start this conversation. And I'm curious, are you the kind of person that just tends to notice things all the time? Like, are you always like, "Ooh, ooh," or, you know, with the kind of work that you do, and I was just telling a mutual friend of ours that you're going on this this meditation retreat, and I was like, How does that work?" And I suspect there's a lot of noticing in that too. So is that something that you have noticed about yourself, that you're always noticing things?

Kendra Coupland 3:34

Definitely. I think... I mean, I also have ADHD. Undiagnosed ADHD, but I think I'm probably on the spectrum, if I'm being honest.

Michele 3:44

We are magnetic, I'm told.

Kendra Coupland 3:46

Everything from, like, you know, I can hear, like, electricity

Michele 3:49

Me too

Kendra Coupland 3:50

So sometimes it's like, you know, um, I feel almost overstimulated by all of the things that I notice. But I don- yeah, I think meditation has also really that. You know, it was interesting, a few months back, I was- I had a student who was like, they live with ADHD as well, and they were like, "I can't sit still in meditation. just get so bored." And I thought about, about it for a minute, and I was like, "I don't think you're meditating then." Because if you're meditating, there's nothing you can get bored of. Like, the present moment is continuously unfolding. There's something new second. Like, a sound is coming in, the light has shifted. You know, the way the light is coming through the trees, like, you can see the little beams and the particles in the air, and they're shifting and dancing in the sunlight. Like, if you're really present, life is just continuously unfolding in all of these beautiful ways around you. so if you're just in your head and you're thinking, then you're actually missing all of this magic that's just continuously unfolding. Um, and so I think a, a true meditation practice is actually the practice of just noticing.

Michele 4:56

This makes me feel a little bit better about how I'm always noticing all the things and constantly distracted. Like, but it's not... Like, I'm not intentionally sitting there and meditating, but I am always, like, noticing, feeling. And by feeling, I mean sensory-wise. Like, I feel the temperature change. I feel, like, humidity change. Like, all of the things. Um, yes, this is very interesting, and I struggle with it

Kendra Coupland 5:24

think the difference is like, do we get carried away with the story when we notice a

Michele 5:28

Oh!

Kendra Coupland 5:29

I hear a plane overhead, and then I'm like, "Oh, I don't like that sound. Oh, I wonder where that plane's going."

Michele 5:33

Oh!

Kendra Coupland 5:34

unfolding that happens. can I just stay with the noticing, with the continuous unfolding, without creating attachments or aversions to a particular sensory input, or without creating a narrative about why a sensation or a sound or a smell is there or not there, and just allow continuous unfolding to be?

Michele 5:57

So two things are coming up for me as you say that. So in my garden, I love to watch spiders. I don't know, when I go in the morning and there's a new web and it's glistening, you know, from morning dew, I could just sit there and watch the spider forever. There's no story, actually. There's nothing. I'm not like, "Oh, where's its friends?" Or anything. I'm just like, "Hmm, the spider." And I didn't honestly... Like, I don't love spider- it's not, I don't have a spider thing., I'm not... I don't know anything about spiders. But if I see a spider on a web and I'm doing something in the garden, I will just stop and hang out and just watch it

Kendra Coupland 6:38

Yeah, to just share presence and to just be with. I think that is truly what meditation is. And we get this idea that, like, because we only see it presented in

Michele 6:46

Uhum!

Kendra Coupland 6:46

way where it's like I sit still, you know, I'm in Padmasana with my legs crossed and, you know, my index finger, my thumbs are together and, you know, I'm barely inhaling, exhaling. And y- you know, we kind of only see this one form of, like, a very disciplined type of meditation that generally like, kind of the most extreme end of practitioners would practice. Like someone who is living in an ashram. They're outside of the world. They're not engaged in daily life. They don't have kids. They're not married know? They're not going to school or working. So that type of meditation of stillness isn't a big jump from their day-to-day, Of chop wood, carry water, right? Um, but for, you know, someone who's in the world, that type of meditation is a big jump from being engaged and coming home from work and then needing to be absolutely still. That's, that's hard on the nervous system

Michele 7:40

Yeah. And actually it's so interesting, even though I've worked with you, even though I feel like I am always doing self-work and thinking about these things. Anytime I go to do the thing, right? I'm going to meditate right now. I'm going to try. It's always try because I'm always so distracted, but not by the story, by the things. Like, by the light. You were talking about the light. I can picture what you were saying, too. I have such a visual, like, brain. Like, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I saw that this morning and the light through the, you know, through the tree leaves, and they're falling gently." Like, if I'm sitting in front of the window, I will notice all of that. Like, and so I tend to beat myself up because I can't stay focused on the, on something, right? So there's always been this internal "Am I doing this right?" Because right now I'm just so aware of all of the things

Kendra Coupland 8:32

Hum

Michele 8:32

And I bet other people feel that way, right? "Am I doing this right?"

Kendra Coupland 8:37

Oh, I mean, I definitely did when I first started meditating, I felt like I was always doing it wrong or like, why is it such a fight? Like, you know, um, when I went into my very first Vipassana meditation, it's like 10 days of silence, and I was it was like a slugfest, me and, and me just, you know? First, the first seven days it was a... Every moment of that was a fight. Um, but at some point you stop fighting yourself and you drop in, and then there's just the continuous unfolding of the now, the eternal now. And all of the stories, all of the mind stuff starts to settle, and you just allow, you just allow yourself to just be as you are And that's where the peace is, right? Like, that inner peace, that inner stillness comes out of that, the ability to just allow and to be with what is, trying to create an internal experience of calm, but to recognize that that internal experience is actually foundation that's already there. It's already in- it's already occurring, and you're noticing

Michele 9:41

You're so wonderful. I just love listening to you speak. I'm just thinking this morning because, yeah, having this conversation with our friend, and we're talking about having no chill, and how do we find our chill, and how do we medi- And it always seems like an... You know, I think there's this thing of, like, seems like a thing to do and learn, and it's like, no, it's just being, which is really fricking hard.

Kendra Coupland 10:01

It's so hard to be though

Michele 10:03

that's the thing. Sounds so easy. It's a two-letter word. It's like... But it's really hard, right?

Kendra Coupland 10:08

but that also requires, you know, that we have to drop all of our expectations, and our hopes, and our desires, and, know, the things that we don't like or are resistant to. Like, to just be, it takes a lot of work. That's a lot of practice

Michele 10:20

really, really... Yes. Um, yes, all of that. And yeah, my question for you that I prepared for us today is, is there something, Kendra, that you've been noticing lately?

Kendra Coupland 10:36

And it's been, you know, I think just this season of change. Like, we're kinda entering into autumn this northern hemisphere right now, and I noticed, like, I was having a lot of resistance to, like, "Oh, I'm not ready for summer to end." Like, you know, we live near the lake, and so of, like, my summer grounding is, like, I just go out and float on the lake. And just like, "Oh, that won't happen now for at least

Michele 11:00

Hum

Kendra Coupland 11:00

six to, like, eight months." It's hard for me to let go of this. Like, that's my peace

Michele 11:04

Uhum

Kendra Coupland 11:05

you know? And now I'm gonna be indoors. Um, and this kind of feeling of like, "Oh, I didn't get enough time at the lake," or And but the transition's happening. You know, the f- the fall is here. I, I could go and float, but it'd be probably not a very enjoyable experience at this point. It'd be pretty Maybe like a cold plunge, not like a,

Michele 11:24

okay.

Kendra Coupland 11:25

whole afternoon in

Michele 11:26

tried one of those once and it was, that wasn't for me. I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. But love that for people who can do it. Love it for them. I even love that you can float in the lake 'cause I'm so sensory, like, sensitive around coldness.

Kendra Coupland 11:42

Hum

Michele 11:42

I can maybe go out and up to my knees and then...

Kendra Coupland 11:44

yeah. So for my, my trick is I get onto the

Michele 11:46

Oh.

Kendra Coupland 11:47

So I'm out of the water, in the sunshine, and I'm just rocking

Michele 11:51

Okay, I love that

Kendra Coupland 11:52

know, on the water top. So I feel like it's kind of like in the same way a lot of folks who, um, maybe have autism like to swing or be, like, suspended. I get that sensation of being on the

Michele 12:03

Okay. That's, yeah, that's so... I, I could, I can get down with that. I can get down with that. Could I have a blanket, Kendra, on my floatie? Yeah,

Kendra Coupland 12:14

could.

Michele 12:15

I

Kendra Coupland 12:15

you?

Michele 12:16

I don't want it to be wet, but yes, I love this idea. Um, okay, so the changings of the season and,... Do you have a favorite season, by the way?

Kendra Coupland 12:27

I think it's probably

Michele 12:29

Ja

Kendra Coupland 12:30

I think it's sp- and which is another season of change, right? That's like the kind of kinda think of spring and fall as both kind of emergent, seasons, right? Like, spring is our transition from winter into summer, fall is our transition from summer into winter, and they're kind of this is, like, the emergence and one is the slowing down. So I think when the spring comes, I always have this internal feeling of like, "Oh, God, we survived it," you know?

Michele 12:55

I do know

Kendra Coupland 12:56

again. It's getting warmer day by day. The green is coming back. Like, we survived another year. and I've always kinda felt like the new year for me begins in that, like, spring time rather than, like, in Janua- January feels, like,

Michele 13:10

Sam.

Kendra Coupland 13:10

like a new year for

Michele 13:11

Sam

Kendra Coupland 13:13

So when we kinda hit, like, March or, like, the spring equinox, I'm like, "Okay, it feels like, phew,

Michele 13:18

Mm-hmm. I feel like many people can relate to that. I feel like that too. When you take... I have a dog who's sitting behind me here. Look at her, so cute. Um, you have a dog too, or two of them. They're so cute. Um, I feel like when I'm taking her for a walk and then I start to see the little buds, like, coming out of the ground, it brings me so much joy.

Kendra Coupland 13:41

Yeah. Yeah, like the first crocus I notice in the s- in the garden, I'm always like,

Michele 13:45

I know. It just brings so much... And actually, I love when the leaves start turning color too. That also brings me joy

Kendra Coupland 13:53

Hum!

Michele 13:54

in a different kind of way. 'Cause I don't have a very busy life. Our life is pretty quiet. Uh, well, uh, quiet's probably not the right word, but we're not very...

Kendra Coupland 14:05

It's a

Michele 14:05

Yes, um, as a family. So I don't get out and about as much as I used to. Like, so summer, it just hits differently for me. But now that I started gardening, it's like, okay, summer's about all of the garden, and now spring too, getting everything ready. But summer almost feels, like winter. I've done all this work, I've prepped the land, and now I'm going into this,, just going in my garden, seeing what's popping up, checking out the spiders. And then something about fall, I don't know, even though my kid's not in school, there's, this fast pace to fall for me., I, I just feel the energy of, people are going back into routines after summer, and I'm just like, "Same. It's the same for me." But I love to notice... And that's been the last three years, but noticing the shift in colors, I feel like there's just a shift in energy overall

Kendra Coupland 14:55

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think for me it's like in the Even in the kinda late winter, like February, in my head I'm like, "Oh, the end is coming of winter," so that's why I start to prep my seeds

Michele 15:07

Uhum.

Kendra Coupland 15:08

because I know spring's coming and I wanna be able to transplant my little buds into the garden. And then, like, by the time summer hits, everything's Like, the bulk of the work that I'm doing in my garden So I kinda just, like, kick back and wait for plants to do their thing until I'm in my harvest season, which is, like, the last, you know, or two has been starting to reap what we've sown. You know? And now is, like, the time of year where I'm starting to see, like my tomato plants this week all got blight There's, like, this, like, shutting down of the garden, of, like, things are fruits didn't make it are not

Michele 15:44

Uhum

Kendra Coupland 15:44

it at this point. There's lots of still-green

Michele 15:47

I have so many of those, yeah.

Kendra Coupland 15:48

come to be. some of them I've brought inside, but now that they've got blight, un- like, they'll just never fruit. it's like m- maybe in some ways I feel, like, a bit of a sadness that, this plant still made all this effort to make this fruit, but it never saw, you know, full maturity. I think that's, part of what I'm noticing and, like, processing these days around change is, like, every effort is fruitful. You know? And, recognizing, that transition zone is also part of that, right? Like, and that it has its sacred place as well. So for example, of the leaves in this plant that's now dying will decompose and put its nutrients back into the soil, and that's equally as important, you know? We don't W- when we look out in the wintertime and we see all the trees and they look dead, the trees are doing something important. They're, like, rejuvenating all of their nutrients back into themselves so that when spring comes they can bloom again, grow even larger, produce even more fruits. And so I think I'm just, like, n- noticing there's, like, the part of me that had hope or expectation around a particular thing coming to fruit. When it doesn't, that, like, tr- the, the acceptance of that change of perspective or desire or expectation is, like, the piece that I'm like, "Oh, maybe s- nature's got something to offer here, some sort of wisdom that I'm missing about transitions and change."

Michele 17:15

Nature has so much wisdom to offer that we're missing. Thank you for saying that, and I can say that I've been trying to learn a bit more about gardening, and not in a forceful, way. You know, I just wanna learn more about the land and, and being part of it and working with it, and this year got more into it, and it's just so many lessons that came out of that experience. And I love what you said. Yeah, not everything matures. Not everything gets... you've mentioned a few times our expectations

Kendra Coupland 17:53

Yeah

Michele 17:54

That we put on ourselves, nature, ev- all the other things

Kendra Coupland 17:59

Yeah, and I think it comes back to that, just being. So I think of,, for example, an apple tree. It's not producing fruit year-round. That would be

Michele 18:07

Uhum!

Kendra Coupland 18:08

But we do that to ourselves. We expect ourselves to be productive and to make things and be creative and year

Michele 18:13

I know

Kendra Coupland 18:15

And then the apple ma- the apple tree makes its fruits, and it then doesn't control where the fruits go. Some of them fall, and they fall nearby, and they grow into an orchard, and some of them get eaten and carried far away, and some of them end up in a bird poo, you know, miles from where that original tree was, and a single tree pops up. And some of them just rot. They never make it anywhere, that nobody eats them. They just rot and put the nutrients back into the ground. And so the tree is always producing its fruits without this expectation that the, that it's creating a whole forest of apple trees. In fact, maybe only a few those apples will actually make it back into the ground. But it's, it's still producing in, the hundreds, you know? And so yeah, just thinking about, like when I make an effort in some particular way, if I don't see the immediate fruits of that particular action, it's not evidence that it didn't work or that I should just stop or, yeah, that I need to, fall into despair. It's just that some apples don't fruit back into trees when they leave the, the, you know, the mother tree, and that's okay. That's just part of the process.

Michele 19:24

Imagine if we could think like that more often, it's okay. It's okay that the things didn't fruit

Kendra Coupland 19:33

And like how much more would we try or experiment or risk if we were just okay with that being part of the process, right? Like, would probably paint more if I wasn't afraid that I was gonna hate my painting at the end or like you

Michele 19:44

I do know. Mm-hmm

Kendra Coupland 19:46

we don't take risks. We're like, "Ugh, I don't wanna suck at it," so I don't try.

Michele 19:51

Or I do suck at it. We have a story. I do suck at it. Yeah.

Kendra Coupland 19:55

yeah,

Michele 19:56

So we don't try. I tried that once, and I sucked at it, and so...

Kendra Coupland 20:00

Yeah. My one apple didn't fruit.

Michele 20:03

Right?

Kendra Coupland 20:04

Yeah, like I think of it as a photographer, I was looking back at like my work, like 15 years, and I was like, "Oh, wow, I remember some of these pictures being so hard on myself." And I was like, "I actually had a pretty good eye back in like 2011 or whatever it was." You know? Or I think of like how many photos have I taken? I've photographed over 300 weddings, so

Michele 20:22

Your photos were amazing.

Kendra Coupland 20:23

of

Michele 20:24

Yes

Kendra Coupland 20:25

You know? I think like not every photo I

Michele 20:27

Of course.

Kendra Coupland 20:28

That's I never went to a wedding and was like, you know, I shot 2,000, 3,000 frames and expected every picture to be perfect. I went through and I selected my favorite. You know, I culled it down to like my favorite 500 images or whatever, and that's what I actually delivered. But I was still producing and creating all of the, the negatives that didn't make the

Michele 20:48

Totally

Kendra Coupland 20:49

But we're not generous with ourselves in the same way of you know, I can just try a thing and maybe it doesn't fruit, and that's Or it's not fruitful. It's not It doesn't turn out the way I imagined, That's just part of the process of getting to the

Michele 21:02

And also my experience this summer was that things fruited, fruited, and I didn't get to them in time because little critters did. And I'm so happy for them. I'm so happy for them. I took my garden... i've been learning, I've been doing all these things, and you know who l- noticed? The critters in my neighborhood. Oh, they noticed. They ate almost, all of my tomatoes, all of my cucumbers. And they don't just eat them. They take little nibbles here and there, and I'm like, "You little jerks, just eat them. Eat them all. Why are you leaving this for me?" Like a, "Hehe, bitches," you know? And so there was a feeling of okay, they needed that nourishment. They enjoyed it. And that's what I had to get to rather than being so frustrated. I had peaches for the first time this year. I planted a peach tree, and I had these three peaches that I slowly saw growing. I was so excited, and then guess what? Gone. And I, I, I... At first I thought it was birds, but I actually think it was probably more like squirrels. So there's that, too. Sometimes things don't fruit, and sometimes that happens. Like

Kendra Coupland 22:15

Yeah, and you know, I mean, when we think of like a small peach tree may only produce three fruits, but 30 years from now, that peach tree may be so abundant that you're like, "Please,

Michele 22:25

Yes.

Kendra Coupland 22:26

peaches

Michele 22:26

Yes

Kendra Coupland 22:27

I can't eat all, all these peaches," you know? yeah, I think it's... I- we also have a big vegetable garden here, and, um, and oftentimes I come out and I'm like, "Oh, you've taken a bite out of every zucchini.

Michele 22:39

You know, thanks

Kendra Coupland 22:41

You know? night I was cooking dinner and I was like, "Is this a squirrel bite?" After I've just, just finished chopping it up, and then I saw one piece and I was like, "Oh, how did I miss that?" Well, I was like, "Well, it's gonna get cooked. I guess we're just eating this one But you know, um, in my head I've always kinda been like, if we have a 50/50 yield, like 50 goes back to nature and we take in 50% at my house, I'll be happy. Like,

Michele 23:01

I love that

Kendra Coupland 23:02

even have to be 50/50. I'm okay to share, know, with the local squirrels,

Michele 23:07

Same

Kendra Coupland 23:08

uh, skunks, whatever comes. I don't feel like I own what I've planted. I feel like I planted it and that I'm supporting a plant, but it's producing abundantly and generously

Michele 23:20

Yeah, and I think that's part of, what this conversation of, these lessons from me. For me, it's, really practicing non-attachment. Okay, I see the peaches. So next year I'll be like, "Oh, cool, peaches." This is my first year having that tree. I was so excited, and I had a different attachment to, watching those little buds grow, right? And next year I'll be like, "All right, who wants peaches?" You know, because we... I, I don't know. For me, and, and yes, it was frustrating, that the cucumbers, I had so many cucumbers, and they just went to town on them. And but that was such a lesson in, well, yeah, someone got fed here. Like these critters and that made me feel better about it, and I wasn't really angry. I mean, yeah, so you go out there and you're like, "Ugh, I was so excited about those." But it, it... There's a, there's these lessons in connecting with the land and gardening or houseplants even. Like, all these things that we're growing, and they're not necessarily going to mature, as you said, in the ways that we expect

Kendra Coupland 24:23

And I have to remind myself, I'm not a commercial farmer You know? Like, it's okay. It's okay to grow some things and they, like, flopped, and other things s- you know, took over like a weed in the garden, and I'm like, "That was the wrong place to

Michele 24:35

Mm, I've done that too

Kendra Coupland 24:37

I planted potatoes a couple years back, and this year we, before, as we were planting them we were like, "Oh my God, there's so many potatoes in

Michele 24:42

Oh!

Kendra Coupland 24:43

already that just, like, it through the winter and they've

Michele 24:46

Oh my gosh

Kendra Coupland 24:47

we're like, "I don't even know what to do. Do we just, like, add more in, or?" So yeah, I think, um I'm not a commercial farmer, so I just also am trying to practice, dropping this expectation that everything I ha- do has to be pr- like, productive. It's almost like this kind of capitalistic attachment

Michele 25:07

Totally

Kendra Coupland 25:07

my, the, the things that I grow, and think of myself as more of, like, a tender. I make sure that the things get watered. I help create the conditions for life to emerge, whether it does or it doesn't

Michele 25:19

Kendra, you're so poetic when you speak. I love that. Creating the conditions for life to emerge. This is very beautiful. Yes. And you know, when you were talking about noticing the changes of the season, and we're circling around gardening, and now, the garden is, like, done its thing. You've harvested, and now we're going into this, restful season. What are you noticing for yourself that comes up as we're going into this kind of entering this... I, I think winter is a state of rest, for me anyway. I don't know if it is for you, but

Kendra Coupland 25:53

I think like this, uh, the resistance is a part of me that feels maybe like my summer was very restful, and so I'm like, I wanna do now, but the season has changed. Like my... I have more energy, and maybe that was just my internal season didn't line up with the external seasons. I felt like it was a bit down the summertime where I just didn't have as much energy, so I didn't get to do all the things that I had imagined I would be doing all summer. now that it's ended, I feel this like, "Oh, but I wanna do things." And my body doesn't feel quite ready to slow down, and it's part of why I also have put myself in this 30-day meditation, is to, yeah, just to reset the clock. I feel like somehow we maybe came out of, like came out of alignment somewhere and like I need a bit of time to just readjust to what is, to this reality, which is like we are like entering a season of rest.

Michele 26:44

And, and you know what? You're right too, because for some it's not a season of rest as well, like those that love winter sports, for example. Not me, I don't do those things but, you know, it's, it's interesting, the more I start to learn about how, I don't know, our rhythms and connecting with the earth and the seasons, and learning from that, I always associate winter with rest for me, and, like, the earth is kind of rest. It's not stopped, right? Things are still working underground, as you said. There's still things going on. But there's a- for me it's always been that kind of calm energy. But yeah, for some, yeah, I'm sure it's exciting time as well

Kendra Coupland 27:22

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, even if we look at, like, compost, if you look on, like, the, know, uh, m- microbial level, it's very busy, you know? We don't see anything on the surface. We just see a dead, you know, a tree

Michele 27:35

Ja

Kendra Coupland 27:36

But if you were to zoom into the soil, you'd see, like, oh, there's so much activity actually happening there. So I think it just depends on the perspective of,

Michele 27:44

Yeah.

Kendra Coupland 27:45

you're zoomed in on

Michele 27:46

Mm-hmm. And I would love to ask, 30-day meditation. I've heard about, 10-day... Is this a silent meditation that you're doing?

Kendra Coupland 27:56

Yeah, more or less. I'll be teaching a little bit still, but other than that I will be out of the world

Michele 28:01

Okay, what does one do on a 30-day meditation?

Kendra Coupland 28:06

Yeah, meditate. I'll be Yeah, like, I think my, my plan is kind of to start early, maybe, like, 5:00 And then I'm gonna be meditate till 7:00 or 8:00 AM, and have a Eat, and then go back to meditating. And, yeah, other than my, like, breaking to do my basic things like, you know, Or, I've made arrangements for, like, my kid will be, you know, get to and from school okay. I won't be cooking. I'm not gonna We, I have a separate yoga studio that's separate from my house, so I'm gonna be in the studio. So I'm moving out my mattress and everything out here, so I will be out of the family. And w- I've asked for everyone to not engage with me, so I won't be entering the house. They won't be coming out here. Yeah, I won't have access to any technology. It'll just be Yeah, I have, like, a, have one book. It's, like, a It's, like, some, some That I want to study while I'm out here, so I'll probably set, like, a certain amount of study time aside a day. But beyond that, yeah, I'll be in meditation

Michele 29:10

one like this before, Kendra, for 30 days?

Kendra Coupland 29:14

I haven't done 30 days. I've done longer ones that are like 10 or 14 days, but this will probably be my longest sit. Yeah

Michele 29:21

30 days. I'm so fascinated by it because I would love to try something like that. I've always been very curious about, a silent retreat, especially 'cause I'm such a verbal processor. Like, just no talking, just having that quiet. I can be in quiet, that's not a problem. But when I'm... When things come up, I wanna verbally process Guess you can write it down

Kendra Coupland 29:49

You

Michele 29:49

Oh, okay. You can't. Okay, so you can't write

Kendra Coupland 29:52

can't. If you go into a Vipassana, there's no writing, there's no music, there's no reading, there's no making eye contact, there's no distractions. You, you just meditate

Michele 30:05

What do you do with the things that come up for you?

Kendra Coupland 30:11

Yeah, you sit with them. Yeah, you let them be there. So, like I said, the first, the first time I did a big meditation, um, oh, I have a habit of making things way harder on myself than

Michele 30:26

I can relate.

Kendra Coupland 30:27

So,

Michele 30:28

I can relate

Kendra Coupland 30:29

so I did my very first meditation in Indonesia, I was at a, an ashram Kintamani. And the day before, I ate at some roadside warung where I definitely got food poisoning then immediately

Michele 30:44

Oh!

Kendra Coupland 30:44

a 10-day meditation in an ashram with no running water and squat toilets.

Michele 30:50

Sounds glorious.

Kendra Coupland 30:52

was a battle trying to meditate through that. Um, I remember laying in bed one night thinking, "Okay, I'm just gonna jump the fence, and then I'll hitchhike back to Ubud, and then I'll find a way to Jakarta, and I'm gonna contact the Canadian Embassy and they can just send me a new passport." And I had to stop and be like, "Kendra, you put yourself here. You flew across the world to be here. What are we doing?" But it was just such a fight. I was like, my nervous system was in, like, fight,

Michele 31:18

Uhum.

Kendra Coupland 31:19

you know? Um, at, the first, you know, part of that meditation was a real fight. But at some point, just like if you were to imagine, uh, contracting all the muscles in your body, eventually you can't. You tire it out yourself out, and then things start to relax. And I think that happens mentally as well. You know, the first little bit is thoughts are coming up, and then, like, s- something you did 15 years ago, the shame suddenly pops back up, and you're like, "Oh, thanks for reminding me that that You know? And then by and by, the mind starts to settle. There's, like, all that needs to surface has surfaced. And then it's... starts to release, and then there's just the dropping into yourself.

Michele 32:00

The dropping into yourself, can you expand a little bit on that for those that might not know? Like, what does that even mean?

Kendra Coupland 32:08

It's hard to explain unless it's happened. Um, but I would say a lot of people who meditate kind of de- describe the experience, it literally feels like you're falling into yourself. Like, it feels like a physical dropping in. But maybe the best way I can explain it is, so I teach a practice, a- I teach tantric meditation and yoga, which comes from a non-dualist tradition. And we always believe that experiential knowledge is really the key to knowing, that I can tell you a thing, for you to experience it yourself is really the way to know.

Michele 32:44

I agree

Kendra Coupland 32:45

and so one way I might... If you're open to it, I can, I can, like, invite you

Michele 32:50

Yeah, sure. Let's do it

Kendra Coupland 32:53

So the invitation would be to just take a moment to just notice the natural movement of your breath. Breath is coming and going, and you're watching it come and go. So allowing the attention to just follow the inhalation all the way in and to follow the exhalation all the way back out to breathe with the awareness that you're breathing Once you've got a sense of that I want to invite you to see if you can turn your attention back in on itself. That part of you that knows you're breathing, that's watching you breathe, see if you can observe that And notice how there's this fundamental sense of being. You are, and you are aware that you are This is the pre-verbal I am. Before you identify as I am happy or I am sad, or I'm, I am a man, or I am a woman, or I am Black. There's just a sense of I am, I know that I am My teacher would always say this is the primordial footprint of consciousness itself that exists within all things Notice how regardless of what the situation is, whatever is occurring, that awareness doesn't shift or change. It doesn't fluctuate. It remains. Whether you're noticing happiness is present or sadness is present or confusion or, you know, desire or attachments, the thing that's aware doesn't shift. Just what's moving in that field of awareness is what's shifting

Michele 35:30

Ah!

Kendra Coupland 35:33

Right? So it can be like I'm aware I'm in the garden or I'm aware I'm in the house, but the thing that's aware doesn't change regardless of where I'm located So eventually we start to obs- observe that inner awareness, and you- that becomes the, the origin point from which I recognize myself. So I am that inner awareness, not this external experience which is continuously changing. Like, sometimes I'm fat, sometimes I lose weight. The physical body shifts and changes. look anything like I did when I was 10 you know? look

Michele 36:10

Same

Kendra Coupland 36:11

So this, uh, is hard for me to say that I am that thing because that version of Kendra's gone, you know? Um, but that part of me that's aware that I am hasn't shifted. It's been the same awareness since I was 10. always been here And so that becomes the refuge point. That becomes a place I keep coming back into and anchoring is that inner observer watching all of these transitions and changes occur and, know, the judgments about whether I like them or I don't like them. I remain anchored into that part that's just watching, that's observing the process

Michele 36:50

How does one reintegrate then after such a experience with yourself and all of this, being and processing, and there's probably lots of internal stuff going on, and then

Kendra Coupland 37:06

Hum!

Michele 37:07

there's reintegration

Kendra Coupland 37:10

Yeah. So I plan that in my 30 days, I have a transition period of coming out of the world into my meditation. I imagine the first few days I'll probably sleep a lot. Like, I'll go to sit in meditation and I'll doze off, and that'll just be part of the process of, becoming more wakeful, becoming more present. You know, I've... In some ways, in the world, we have so much stimulation, we have to cut parts of ourselves off, because if I n- really tune into every sound that's happening, it's like my nervous system gets shot. So I need a bit of a transition point, just like, you know, moving from summer into fall of letting everything start to settle, and that's probably gonna look a little messy and imperfect, and it'll be

Michele 37:52

Right. Mm-hmm

Kendra Coupland 37:54

And then I'll have the dropping in, and then I'll have a transition period where I come back. So I'm thinking, maybe it looks like, um, I might start coming into the house for meals or even just to sleep at the end of the night, but not being in the house in the daytime, and then maybe slowly engaging just with family, then starting to engage and check my

Michele 38:11

Right.

Kendra Coupland 38:12

things like that again.

Michele 38:13

Yeah

Kendra Coupland 38:13

building it bit by bit, rather than just jumping back in. also because I'm teaching, I'll have transition points through certain days. So I'm teaching at 4:00 PM on a Wednesday, then I'll probably start transitioning around, like, 2:00, 3:00 out of that meditation, and then back in for, like, 6:00. Yeah, just having these kind of periods of, being within and then deeply external and in the

Michele 38:39

And I'm hearing, like, a lot of gentleness. You know, being gentle with yourself as you go into it and as you come out, right? We forget to be gentle with ourselves. We're so process-oriented, how are we gonna do the thing, and what... You know, it's like, but a big part of that is being gentle

Kendra Coupland 39:00

Yeah, and like, you know, thinking about like what, what would actually be supportive to think about it now than just getting out there and being like, "Wow, I'm having a hard time." You know, like what would my body need if I'm experiencing a lot of pain? Do I have cushions available that I can readjust with? Um, you know, what is my backup plan if like a lot of anxiety comes up all of a sudden? W- is that a s- like what point do I wanna say, "Okay, I have to come back in the house," or, "I have to re-engage with the world or find support somewhere external." Like just having a bit of a plan going in helps me to cultivate that gentleness, actually there's no, there's no expectation. And even my, my, my husband Brad said to me yesterday, he was like 'Cause I was like, "Oh God, what if I get out there and I only last seven days? I'm gonna be so embarrassed." And he's like, "Well, it's not a failure. Then you've meditated for seven days." And I was like, "Right." You have to remind myself that like even though I'm, I'm set, I'm sitting for 30 days, I don't have to be so attached to that outcome in the same way that a tr- a apple tree's not attached to its apples. It's made its hundred. Some of them go on the ground, some of them

Michele 40:07

I was just thinking about the apple tree as you said that. When you said what Brad said, I was like, "You're the apple tree, Kendra."

Kendra Coupland 40:17

You know, and the other piece I've been thinking about is, the trust in that process of, of change. You know, what allows me to, let go of that attachment, like, the, to like an

Michele 40:27

Uhum,

Kendra Coupland 40:28

my fruits, and to

Michele 40:29

uhum.

Kendra Coupland 40:29

You know? And I think part of that is trusting that what needs to be protected, whatever's sacred, will be protected. Like, you know, some of those seeds will get in the ground, and they'll be covered by the leaves, and they'll keep just warm enough to make it to the

Michele 40:43

Hum.

Kendra Coupland 40:44

Not all the seeds will, but the pieces that's sacred, the little... The ones that need to come through, be protected through the winter and that rest season. And I have to trust that that process is also happening internally, that I dr- you know, drop away from the world, that, like, emails will go unanswered, and maybe someone will have some feel about that, and okay. It's okay. It's part of that that if the, you know, if the... If a work opportunity came in that I didn't get, that I... It wasn't meant for

Michele 41:10

Right. Mm-hmm

Kendra Coupland 41:12

and if it was, then it's in alignment with how I wanna be in the world anyways, in which case I know it's part of that what was protected,

Michele 41:20

I love what you just said there. It's in alignment with how you wanna be in the world anyways. I've been thinking about that so often when, yeah, something doesn't work out. I don't know, for me, it's this personal thing of, like, trying to practice non-attachment and recognizing that wasn't meant for me in this moment, uh, nor did I actually want that, right? But sometimes we become so connected to... I, I don't know what it is. Is it ego? I don't know. Um, but damn it, why, why didn't they pick me or whatever? I'm just gonna use... And then you're like, "I didn't want them to pick me." Right? So I love what you're saying here about, yeah, well, maybe that just wasn't meant. And wouldn't it be amazing if we all could do that?

Kendra Coupland 42:08

I was just gonna say, it made me think of, like, uh, years back I was talking to my therapist. I was dating online, and I was, like, swiping and never finding anyone. I was like, just don't know no- like, I must be too much. People aren't picking me," or like, "People aren't... They're not picking up what I'm putting down." my therapist was like, "You're swiping no on them, honey." And I was like, "Oh, you're right." 'Cause I'm going, be like, "This isn't a match. This isn't a match on my side." know, but, like, having this feeling of, like, wanting something that wasn't even a l- in alignment in the first place because had I swiped, th- you know, I can see that they've liked me and I'm being like, "Nah," on m- on my end.

Michele 42:44

Well, I

Kendra Coupland 42:46

you know, it's like s- we, we wanna have both. We wanna, you know, um... And I found this was the same with, like, teach- um, sorry, doing photography. Like, I would get a client in and, or a potential client, and I'd feel like, "Ugh, I don't know if this is a match," but I'd take it on and I would regret it.

Michele 43:02

I have no idea what you're talking about. I have no idea. Because I really, really, really, really resonate with all of that. Oh my word. Oh my word. I, again, the conversation I was having with,, a friend this morning, is basically this. W- we have this conversation often. Um, no, she's not a photographer, but also a business owner, and we often are like, "Why does it Why do we say yes to the things that we know weren't in alignment?" I think that's that scarcity mindset sometimes. Like, you gotta take the work, right? And also, I have been in my no era,, and just, like, practicing that a bit more, and also practicing kinda like what you're saying about, getting ready, thinking about do you need the cushions. I'm thinking about how do I repel people. I'm in my repellent era, Kendra. Like, I'm really working on that, but it's taking a lot out of me to work on that, because I'll do it. I'll put something out there that I want, that I feel like it might be a little bit of a repellent, and then I go, "Take it back!" And then I'm like, "No, I shouldn't have said that. I shouldn't have put that on my website," or, "I shouldn't have..." You know, I'm always second-guessing that because it's still a internal struggle even though I know that's what I, where I need to be.

Kendra Coupland 44:25

As it comes back to that, like trusting that what we let go, what's sacred will be

Michele 44:29

Yeah,

Kendra Coupland 44:30

you know?

Michele 44:30

yeah

Kendra Coupland 44:31

you know, it's because otherwise, yeah, we get in that scarcity mindset where we're trying to hold onto all these things that actually are not s- supporting direction we're trying to move or allowing us to live with integrity or

Michele 44:45

Yeah

Kendra Coupland 44:46

know, like I'm thinking like maintaining relationships and I'm like not being the best version of myself in because, you know, we're just our energies are clashing. I'm like, "What am, what am I maintaining this for?" Like it's hell on you, it's hell on me. Maybe I can just say, "You know, it was so lovely that you were in my life for this, for this chapter, and maybe we'll see each other again in the next chapter," but I don't know. For now it's, the chapter's closed. You know? But like we have so much fear around that, like, yeah, to say no to a client, to,

Michele 45:15

A friend?

Kendra Coupland 45:16

release our expectation, a friend. Yeah. Because I think we get this, this kinda like scarcity that like, but what if the seed doesn't come up?

Michele 45:28

Mm. Uh, yes, I do know, which is why it's a blessing and a curse that I know how to make a website 'cause I'm Um, although now I've almost removed all words, which is funny 'cause I'm so verbose, um, from my website just to make it even more minimal even. And that is my repellent actually.

Kendra Coupland 45:50

Hum

Michele 45:51

I'm no longer trying to convince you to pick me, pick me, pick me. Here's what I make. If you like it, that's great. Let's work together

Kendra Coupland 46:01

Yeah. And I'm curious, like, when you're in your garden, what helps you to know, like, okay, I've planted my seeds and maybe some will come up and some don't come up. you have the attachment, like when you put your tomato seeds down, that like every tomato's gonna

Michele 46:15

No. No, I don't have that attachment.

Kendra Coupland 46:19

you think helps that process for

Michele 46:20

Hmm. What helps that process for me, I feel like there's this understanding that that's just not how nature works. That's just not how, um, you know? Um, I just feel like, yeah. I, I also had a garden as a kid. My parents had a garden, and so I just knew from an early age, maybe we'll get strawberries, maybe we won't. Um, I... We had a cherry tree, which I used to love to sit in. It was an old, old cherry tree. And some years we'd have so many cherries that I would just be,, probably having tummy issues from eating so many cherries. And other years, the next year you'd be like, "What? There's, like, no cherries. What's going on?" Um, and so there'd be disappointment, but I'll just be like, "Well, I guess there's next summer." You know, that kind of thing as a kid, and carried on, right? I, I didn't... If I think back to it now, especially as a child, because we always had a garden and these... We had a cherry tree, an apple tree, and a pear tree, and sometimes they were great and sometimes there just wasn't a lot, right? A boun- bounty. Is that the right word? Um,

Kendra Coupland 47:27

Uhum.

Michele 47:28

and yeah, I- as an adult, I feel like it's a big experiment having a garden. So I think I approach it like that. I'm like, "Well, I don't know what's gonna work." Also, I garden in the true fashion of me. I just kind of throw seeds wherever. I'm not very methodical about very much. I just kind of put things down and tomatoes are kind of gonna be over here, and then over here I think I'll throw some cucumber seeds down. Now I'm moving on to flowers. I just filled a whole bed of random seeds that I thought would be pretty and threw them all in there and it's all very experimental. Yeah, so that's kind of how I approach that.

Kendra Coupland 48:08

So it's like what I'm hearing is that there was like in your noticing as a child in the garden, there, that noticing became a

Michele 48:15

Uhum! Hum, uhum!

Kendra Coupland 48:17

right? And yet we don't apply that wisdom to ourselves. You

Michele 48:21

Damn, Kendra, you're so good.

Kendra Coupland 48:23

having witnessed nature for y- you know, however many years as a child and as an adult gardener, that not everything I plant grows, and not everything even that's already fully grown, like a mature tree, doesn't even fruit every single year, every

Michele 48:38

Uhum.

Kendra Coupland 48:40

You know, I know that some years I get cherries and sometimes the birds hit 'em. They came in early in the spring this year and they're in their mating season and they got all the cherries. So we know that. It's not like some belief system that we have to develop. We If we're watching,

Michele 48:53

Okay.

Kendra Coupland 48:54

know. And yet we don't extend that grace to

Michele 48:57

We don't.

Kendra Coupland 48:58

know, of like Yeah

Michele 49:00

And I think you mentioned capitalism earlier. I think, there's this... One of the things I've been really working on over the last three years, which wasn't by choice, some of the things that we are dealing with our son, and really having to detach a lot from societal expectations, from capitalism, from existing as a business owner at this level, because when things kind of went diving down really hard, I was kind of at the top of my game. Um, and so I've had to detach a lot, and practicing... learning to practice more of that non-attachment, and it's not easy. I stumble and fall every single day, many times a day, getting in my own way or feeling a way and being like, "There it is again. Ooh, hmm, okay, thought I was working on that. Thought I had that," and there it is again to remind me, um, the frustration of, yeah, this output, right? We should be having output. We should be doing all the things, and so I'm really trying to not should all over myself and

Kendra Coupland 50:08

Yes. I love that.

Michele 50:11

right? But it's hard because we've been so programmed, right, to do that. And like you said, like we... I did that in the garden as a kid. I do that in the garden as an adult

Kendra Coupland 50:20

Yeah, I did that this summer, you know, and I think that's part of why that change The fall has been hard. It's like I look back and I'm like, "Oh, my dad passed away this summer." Um, I've had two A student of mine passed away this summer, and a coworker passed away a couple weeks ago. So it's been a lot of In, like, ways I didn't necessarily choose or

Michele 50:37

Uhum

Kendra Coupland 50:38

You know? And so when I think of, like, oh, why am I didn't have the energy all summer, I'm like, oh, I was in a grief s- period. That's just what was happening. That was pace of what's unfolding around me, and I allowed myself to go deep into grief because that's what was present. I didn't push it down or avoid it. I just met it in the summertime 'cause that's where it came. so then I have to also then be- give myself grace that, like, I didn't make it to the lake, and I didn't do all the floating, and I didn't do barbecues with friends on the beach because I was in my grief, know, period. And now I have time to go into, my rejuvenation period, which is actually very much needed after I've been in the grief period. I need to put something back in now, you know?

Michele 51:21

I love that you're saying that

Kendra Coupland 51:23

to these expectations of the summer, I'm only adding extra layers of suffering, you know, that don't have to be

Michele 51:29

Yeah. I mean, honestly, Kendra, I spent the last three years putting myself into more suffering rather than honoring the grief of what we are faced with on the daily in our home. And so yeah, I get it, and I'm still working on that

Kendra Coupland 51:44

Yeah, it's a daily

Michele 51:45

I'm still working on that, and I think it is. So, and it's really interesting too, because those around you don't get it, right? You're... So you not only have to deal with your own internal, like, what you're fielding for yourself, but I've definitely noticed the curiosities well, cloaked in curiosity, but a lot of judgment. Like, "What are you gonna do?" And like, you know, the constant questions. So you, I think when you are mov- trying to figure out where, how to just be, you're like, "Ah." Like, it... I wanna go on a 30-day shut the world out. I mean, I know it's not that easy, but, you know, because it is, how do we also honor ourselves and give ourselves grace and ask grace from others?

Kendra Coupland 52:25

Yeah. I think we have to lean back into that inner knowing which is, again, you know, we see it out in the world. We see, we see the Earth reflect, to us that there are not periods of endless

Michele 52:36

Uhum!

Kendra Coupland 52:38

Everything has its cycles and its seasons, and we have to trust that knowing. Like, I already know that to be true, and you don't have to

Michele 52:47

Yeah.

Kendra Coupland 52:48

me. It's not like...

Michele 52:49

Yes

Kendra Coupland 52:50

I really believe truth is not something you can convince somebody of. Something ex- is or it isn't. You know what I mean? Like, there's no, like, if I'm like, "I exist," that's the truth. You can... You're looking at me. You see me. I'm here.

Michele 53:01

Yeah

Kendra Coupland 53:01

Like, it is. So I don't have to convince you. And I kinda feel like that is like w- when we talk about the truth of these kind of, like, seasons, I l- look out into the world, and I see that reflected repeatedly. it in, like, the water

Michele 53:16

Hum

Kendra Coupland 53:16

We see it in, you know, the changing of the seasons. We see it in the growth of the trees. Like, we just see that re- repeatedly, um, reflected back to us. And so it al- it almost doesn't make sense to not extend that grace to not recognize, like, oh, I'm in some part of some cycle in some season. And even if I have... I'm not able to fully orient and be like, "Am I in spring, or am I in my winter?" You know? okay. But just to recognize, like, everything has its seasons, and I think when we do that, we create so much more space for ourselves to just be with what

Michele 53:52

Uhum.

Kendra Coupland 53:53

this is my winter and my su- in the s- in the external summer, my inner winter is happening. And to just be like, "Okay, I'm meeting myself in the winter." You know, I'm meeting myself with my low-yield year of apples, you know?

Michele 54:09

I do know. I've had a low, few low yield years myself, so this is just so nourishing to hear you share all of this, Kendra. I have one last question for you, which is, what's something that you hope you never stop noticing?

Kendra Coupland 54:31

Just like the magic that is just everywhere. You know? Like I, again, like I, I feel like just looking out, I see, like, this incredible wisdom that's coming from just having witnessed a tree, and that, that feels like magic to me, like to go out in the forest and no- just be noticing. magic around us all the time, everywhere, and I find it hard when people tell me that they get bored, 'cause I'm like, "Just open your eyes and look. We're surrounded by so much magic that's happening." so I hope I never stop noticing that magic.

Michele 54:59

I hope so too, for both of us. I don't understand boredom. I, I don't really get bored. Um, even... I don't know. What's the word? Like, I don't ever feel bored 'cause yeah, I'm, I just, I can sit there and look at spiders making webs and that's... Yeah. I'm so curious about boredom. Yeah, it's such an interesting concept that I don't resonate with. I, I don't understand it

Kendra Coupland 55:26

And we do so much to, like, distract ourselves or create or live in our imagination when so much is, like, around that we could just be in a perpetual state of awe and fascination.

Michele 55:38

Sandra, I got to have a little meditation. You shared so... I love where this all went with the garden. Thank you so much for being with me here today and sharing all of this. I would love for you to take this opportunity to do a little shameless plug and share how people can work with you because, um, after this, hopefully they'll want to.

Kendra Coupland 56:00

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for, yeah, w- inviting me into this conversation and making some space for it. people can find me online just under my name, Kendra Copeland, and on all

Michele 56:11

All the things, yes

Kendra Coupland 56:13

All the things, it's just my name. And I also teach three free public classes a week, so you're welcome to come down, at The Gathering Place Community Center. I teach Monday, Friday mornings, and Thursday evenings I teach meditation, and I would love to practice in person together,

Michele 56:27

And are you still doing some online offerings too? So I did the tan- tantra, yeah, with Kendra. I think that was like eight weeks. It was, like, quite a while ago, like five or six years ago. Are you still running those kinds of things as well?

Kendra Coupland 56:42

Yeah, so w- when energy's available, I'll put on online workshops or I've run retreats and, yeah, so if you just check the calendar, you'll see what's kinda coming up or upcoming. And sometimes it's quiet, but sometimes if you follow the newsletter, you'll know if something

Michele 56:59

I lo- I got your, I get your newsletter. I love newsletters. Honestly, someone sent out something the other day, and then I didn't, like, really pay attention 'cause it was in a WhatsApp group. It's in, like, a group chat. And I'm like, "If I don't get a newsletter, I don't pay attention." So let this be known to all those business owners out there, we like newsletters. Make the, you know, do them. Write them with, like, integrity and care. Um, I hate when they're super, super just about, like Yeah. Um, but I think getting that newsletter can be such a nice... Like, if I see your name in my email, I'm, "Oh, I wonder what Kendra's sharing today." It's really nice. So sign up for Kendra's newsletter, everybody. And I will share all the links of where to find Kendra online, and you can go and check out her website. And so much gratitude to you, friend. And so when are, when are you starting this? In Oc- oh, and your birthday is this week, right? My birthday's tomorrow.

Kendra Coupland 57:55

My birthday's tomorrow, and then on, in three days I'll start my meditation, which is also the beginning of Navratri, which is, like, the mother goddess is her season. We, we, uh, honor nine forms of the, the divine mother. it feels very nice to, like, kinda coincide with this, recognizing Mother Earth and Mother Universe in this period of, re-entering back into self as a

Michele 58:19

Oh, Kendra. And I'm s- like, it just feels like extra special that you offered this time this week, and, you know, it's your birthday, you're going into meditation. So really, truly, thank you so much. I'm just... I'm always in awe of you. I admire you a- as a human so much. And yeah, much gratitude.

58:40

I don't know about you, but I feel so nourished after that conversation with Kendra. Kendra, thank you so much for being my guest today on Noticing the Ordinary, and thank you everyone who dropped in to listen to our conversation. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe or, hey, even consider sending it to a friend. This has been a Mateus Studios production by yours truly, Michele Mateus. And until next time, I hope that something ordinary crosses your path soon.